Joepathy for gynecomastia _{Page 3 of 3}

Pankaj,

Let's start here -

I won't buy those things because I plan to get rid of my gynecomastia within 4-5 months. I will do everything possible.

Don't put a time frame on it because if it is not resolved in 4-5 months you will be frustrated. Where did you get the 4-5 month time frame? did you read it somewhere? The target is to get rid of the gynecomastia no matter how long it takes. The do or die attitude is great, don't loose it.

I don't show my torso to anyone because I am afraid. Its normal that people will judge me because I've seen so many of people I know judge people with manboobs.

False
Evidence
Appearing
Real

Don't be afraid.

It is not normal for anyone to judge anyone. If we scrutinize anyone you will find imperfections. Are these people that will judge you? Not what you feel do you know for sure that they will judge you? If so then do not associate with them, find
nonjudgmental friends. Do not put yourself in situations where you know you will be abused. These are not your friends if they would do that to you and if you don't know them who cares what they think.

Since Nat Phos works on hormonal imbalances, should I keep taking 1 tablet a day, then increase it to 1 tablet twice a day?

I AM NOT A HOMEOPATH AND I WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT TO TAKE OR NOT TAKE. THIS IS WHERE THE GROWING UP PART COMES IN.BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW AND HAVE DISCUSSED WITH THE HOMEOPATHS MAKE YOUR BEST DECISION.

ALL I AM DOING IS HELPING US BECOME CLEAR OF THE CAUSE OF YOUR PROBLEM AND THEN YOU CAN SEEK THE RIGHT CURE OR KNOW WHAT YOU ARE ALREADY DOING IS CORRECT.

I have no idea why my body produces this much estrogen.

This is something you need to know. As I said before start researching the causes of over production of estrogen and see if any of the causes fit your life and lifestyle.

I don't know if its still being overproduced.

Again this is something you need to find out. Research how to tell if your body is over producing estrogen. There may be a simple test strip to use similar to the ones that tell where your body ph is. Or you may have to go to a doctor and have a test done. I have no knowledge on how this done, but you have to find out.

'Interestingly, in early puberty, the pituitary gland releases gonadotropins in order to stimulate testicular production of testosterone mostly at nighttime. Estrogens, however, rise throughout the entire day'

You've identified the pituitary gland as a possible culprit. Start understanding the functioning and malfunctioning of the pituitary gland and how it relates to gynecomastia in children and adults. Causes for malfunctions natural and external(diet,liquid consumption, soap, shampoo etc). Corrective actions that can be taken medically, naturally and homepathically.

Some studies have shown that a decreased androgen to estrogen ratio exists in boys with pubertal gynecomastia when compared with boys who do not develop gynecomastia (49).

If you believe this to be true then get a test to measure you andro/estro ratio. I have no idea how or where this done, this is something for you to find and effect.


Stay Excited

Regards,
Robert
[message edited by brijobob on Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:09:44 GMT]
[message edited by brijobob on Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:30:03 GMT]

Pankaj,

My experience wasn't hormonal. That's why my body responded to the exercise that way.

I can lay out what I did and show you the exercises but you already know we had 2 different ailments listed under the same name.

I knew what caused my problem so I could plan a strategy to fix it.

We need to know what is causing yours first or everything we try is hit or miss without any real foundation for relief.

Start looking at the root cause of your problem. Treat it like a math problem with the wrong result at the end, you have to start at the beginning. You already know it is HORMONAL.

I'm not telling you not to exercise, that's always good and helps build confidence.

If you want the routine I will lay it out for you.

Stay excited

Regards,
Robert

Pankaj,

'You did have the real gynecomastia though, or not?'

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Real' the breast on my body were real enough to me.

I hope this satisfies you -

here is a summary of the drug that caused my problem

Spironolactone Side Effects - for the Professional
Spironolactone

The following adverse reactions have been reported and, within each category (body system), are listed in order of decreasing severity.
Digestive

Gastric bleeding, ulceration, gastritis, diarrhea and cramping, nausea, vomiting.
Endocrine

Gynecomastia, inability to achieve or maintain erection, irregular menses or amenorrhea, postmenopausal bleeding. Carcinoma of the breast has been reported in patients taking Spironolactone but a cause and effect relationship has not been established.
Hematologic

Agranulocytosis.
Hypersensitivity

Fever, urticaria, maculopapular or erythematous cutaneous eruptions, anaphylactic reactions, vasculitis.
Metabolism

Hyperkalemia.
Nervous System/Psychiatric

Mental confusion, ataxia, headache, drowsiness, lethargy.
Liver/Biliary

A very few cases of mixed cholestatic/hepatocellular toxicity, with one reported fatality, have been reported with Spironolactone administration.
Renal

en·do·crine
   [en-duh-krin, -krahyn, -kreen] Show IPA Anatomy, Physiology
adjective Also, en·do·cri·nal  [en-duh-krahyn-l, -kreen-l] Show IPA, en·do·crin·ic  [en-duh-krin-ik] Show IPA, endocrinous.

1.
secreting internally into the blood or lymph.
2.
of or pertaining to an endocrine gland or its secretion.

endocrine gland
 
noun
any of various glands, as the thyroid, adrenal, and pituitary glands, that secrete certain substances or hormones directly into the blood or lymph; ductless gland.

Renal dysfunction (including renal failure).

In my case it was the adrenal gland.

I will try to get blood tests for that soon enough.
This is important.

So you took medicine which caused gyno. But you took that medicine for a long time or only short time?

8 years

Is it possible that gynecomastia went away just because you stopped the remedy as Dr David suggested?

Anything is possible but I doubt it.

Yes please do tell me about the routine.

It is very expansive and rather lengthy, I may not get to it this week, I am leaving tomorrow.

Several of my posts to this site were caused by this medication.

Stay excited

Regards,
Robert
[message edited by brijobob on Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:11:40 GMT]

Robert

Thank you for taking on this case which deserves your help as you are advising from your own experience which I must admit is awe inspiring from a curative angle when taken in the context of what you suffered for 8 years and which was resolved very quickly in a few weeks by the Arnica 30c I prescribed in the Wet dose.

I am however concerned on your insistence on intense workouts each of 3 hours duration and I would like to know how often you indulge in them. I do hope that you do them in the Gym where others can help you in any eventuality.

I am surprised to note that David Kempson who usually bugs me on my posts has not commented on the record of your cure and I wonder if he has read this exchange of posts which can give him some food for thought that it is not only his own brand of 'classical homeopathy' that can help a patient but my Joepathy too can perhaps even surpass his own concept of Homeopathy based on the Simila Similibus Curantur theory.

I notice that he likes to emphasize the false idea that it is only Hahnemann's classical homeopathy as contained in the Organon that can cure anyone.

I have always maintained that if he was alive today he may have changed over to Joepathy (This for That) therapy after reading accounts like your own cure.

To David

I was wondering if and when you will comment on Robert Ray's case as you seemed strangely silent these past few days. Your belated response is typical of your previous attitude to the many cases that I have helped and I consider that this case to me is the most satisfying of the many thousands that I have helped on the Homeopathic Forums and at home here in Colombo.

Here is your post which you made on another thread. I presume you did so as you wished to ensure that members of the ABC would not read it as they would otherwise have done if you posted it here on Robert's thread:



'That patient was not cured of his stroke symptoms. Why would you be offering that case as proof of cure? In fact he needed treatment from other practitioners on this site for a number of other problems.

After the treatment with Joepathy, he still suffered from a Perianal cyst, erectile dysfunction, high blood pressure, difficulty walking without a cane, twitching in the arms, weakness of the legs and right shoulder.

The patient did acknowledge he was helped by Joe's treatment. However he clearly was not cured.'


You state that the patient was NOT cured of his stroke symptoms. This is typical of your hatred of my Joepathy which anyone who is not obsessively jealous of this Miraculous Cure of a condition that had prostrated Robert since 2002 up to a few months ago, would have applauded. In your case I have often prescribed Lyco to help to clear your brain which seems so filled with Hatred of the singular success that has attended my CURES that you refuse to see the wood for the trees. I do hope that at this late stage you will take my advice.

It is true that Robert has presented other problems which you mentioned but they do not have any connection with his main problem which had rendered him to be a Paraplegic since 2002. It is when anyone deliberately stoops to the levels that you have so far descended down to in your criticism of my Joepathy that even I lose my even keel and am compelled to waste my time to berate you.

Please re-read Robert's latest report of 11/11/11 where he states categorically that he was CURED of the aftereffects of his STROKE.

http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/304209/1

Re: Treating Gynecomastia with JoepathyFrom brijobob on 2011-11-11

Hi Joe,

I read your email and I have to thank you and joepathy 'TREMENDOUSLY'.

I live in the Pacific Northwest and thanks to your treatment and advice I have been able to resume my career as a Computer consultant.


I am currently working four days a week in St. Louis MO. and returning home on Thursday and flying back on Sunday for my 4 day stint all at company expense with a salary of $125,000.00 per year.

None of this would be possible without your treatment and guidance. I have continued to use Arnica 30c to control my blood pressure which I maintain at 125/70 and I use Arnicated oil to relax my muscles after

workouts.

Currently my workouts are 2 1/2 to 3 hours in duration and very intense.

None of this would have been possible without your help.

My gynecomastia has been completely eradicated with the help of Nat Phos 6c to help burn the fat and turn what was a B cup bra size breast into a chiseled chest on a 55 year old man.



With your therapy I was able to train intensely and bring my waist down from 42 inches to 34 inches.

I am proud to announce that I am walking normally again and looking forward to running soon.

You are truly a miracle worker and have my complete confidence.


I am also copying below your feeble attempt to derate this Miracle Cure which I am convinced that you will never dare to emulate which you have strangely done on another thread totally irrelevant to Robert's thread. I presume that you did so because you wished to hide your comments on this thread which deals with a mother whose baby is under my Joepathy after many months of suffering from the effects of PPI drugs.

I am copying your post and my response to you on Robert Ray's thread which deals with the Gynecomastia of another patient as I feel that your comments which reflect your inner mind should be exposed to the members of this Forum who will wonder on what precisely makes you tick.

I am copying David's response to my last post which he has again chosen to hide in another thread which is totally irrelevant to the cure of Robert's Stroke in the hope that only I will read it.

I believe that he does not have the courage to post it in the obvious position here on this thread as it deals with Robert's case of CURE after he first got 3 Strokes in 2002.

Re: desperately seeking sleep for reflux baby 13months From brisbanehomoeopath [Log on to view profile] on 2011-11-14
There is a simple way to tell if this patient is cured.

Have him stop his daily doses of Arnica.

If the symptoms remain cleared from him, then we have cure. If the symptoms return, then the patient is not cured.

Cure, as defined by homoeopathy, does not need to be maintained by constant applications of a medicine. It is maintained by the healthy vital force, which is in turn made healthy by just a few doses of the simillimum.

Cure is stable, long-lasting and affects the patient on all levels. Homoeopathy sets its yardstick at a high level because it is capable of doing such things.

When homoeopaths present cases for peer review, in order to be called 'cured', they also need to show such stable improvement (no tendency to relapse, ongoing maintanence of good health, no new diseases arising except in purely acute or external forms) for at least 12 months and preferably for 24 months.

A case cannot be 'part-cured'. It is cured (all symptoms are gone) or it is uncured (symptoms remain). During the process of cure you will continue to see symptoms showing, and during this stage you cannot call the case cured even if Direction of Cure is good and suggests cure will happen. Many times patients will get seemingly a long way up this path, only to begin relapsing or displaying new more serious symptoms.

Cure also needs to have definitely come from the remedy. If patients engage in a variety of healing modalities, stop or start other kinds of medication, begin activities known to ameliorate the condition, then this clouds the issue sometimes beyond clarity. In such cases declarations of cure by the medicine would need to be assessed very cautiously.

This is exactly the measure I apply to my own cases before I declare them cured.

I have been asked to publish some of my cured cases in Frans Vermeulen's new book - the requirements are stringent. I must show 18 months of the patient being improved, across all levels, with no sign of the old pathology or new pathology. No original symptoms can remain in the case.
[message edited by brisbanehomoeopath on Mon, 14 Nov 2011 06:54:33 GMT]

David has stated:

'There is a simple way to tell if this patient is cured.

Have him stop his daily doses of Arnica.

If the symptoms remain cleared from him, then we have cure. If the symptoms return, then the patient is not cured. '



I would not dare to request Robert to STOP the Arnica/Nat Phos therapy that he continues to take today as prescribed some years ago. It has not caused him any harm and I do not anticipate that it can possibly cause him any in the future too.

I would consider that it is not in his interest to stop these 2 remedies he is taking today as it is not impossible that his metabolism can again commence the production of the debris in his blood which are now being filtered by my Joepathic therapy.

I am not interested in analyzing the fine details of the word CURE as I have had sufficient evidence direct from Robert that he was CURED by my Joepathy and is back to his normal lifestyle. I must admit however that his insistence of 3 hours of intense training is a matter for concern especially now that he is considering to add Running to his program.

All I wish to ensure is that he continues in his life without any future complications and that he too will live to reach my advanced age of 83 years in about 30 years from now.

I am copying a post by Reva V in reply to David which is part of this thread;

Re: desperately seeking sleep for reflux baby 13months From Reva V on 2011-11-15
Brisbane,
Please show your 'cure' (patient) as defined by you. It is not a polisehd publication, but the thread in this forum could be a real reference. You made 6500 post. I would expect alteast 1% of them should have benefited by your definition of 'cure'. I will certainly contact them and get thier current health.

For people to live with Arnica, they have very good life after this, including my patients. Yes, you can stop Arnica, put them away from the EMF around us, remove flouride and Chlorine in the water (pre-Hahnemann time), eliminate the toxic chemicals from the every day food intake, give them no pollusion air.... and they will enjoy the cures of Hahnemann after stopping Arnica.

Again, please show your 'cures'

Reva V

You do realise that Arnica is a homoeopathic remedy, not a joepathic one. It has been used by homoeopaths for many many things for almost 200 years. I have used it many times to cure a variety of complaints. Just because I used it and it worked, didn't mean I had discovered it.

Arnica is a well known remedy for ailments from stroke - I have used it this way too, since a stroke is a kind of injury to soft tissue, for which Arnica has always been well known.

None of my clients who were cured need to keep taking the remedy. All of them continue to be bombarded by all these external problems caused by our modern lifestyle. Few of them relapse for no apparent reason.

Where was I when you asked for help? Most likely helping dozens of other people here. Also most likely helping my own face-to-face clients since I run an actual real world clinic for homoeopathic treatment. Seriously, are you trying to criticise me for that?

I have made no personal attacks against you Robert. None at all. I am a professional homoeopath registered in my country to practice homoeopathy. Any thing I say here could feasibly be reported to my professional association and go on my record in terms of 'professianl behaviour'. Feel free to contact them if you genuinely feel I am being unprofessional.

If you really think I am a 'peanut gallery homoeopath' why don't you go and look over the cases I am treating on this forum. Have a look at the amount of work I do for them, the amount of time I spend on each case, the degree of thought and care I put into each person. Have a look at the depth to which I compare remedies, explain what I am doing, how I make my decisions and treat those people. All of which I do for free, despite the pressures of my own practice with paying clients. Then you can come back to me and start telling me how unprofessional I am.

While I understand that people show loyalty to those that aid them, do you really believe that ANY practitioner, ANY healer, ANY person at all, is above peer review? Seriously - is that how you believe the world should be? Health professionals all immune to criticism, invulnerable to any outside comment or observation, doing whatever they want without caring about what anyone else thinks?

Although you have not seen all the posts where Joe and I have clashed, I only ever offered my opinion as a trained and experienced homoeopath, and always chosen to debate the issues rationally and logically. This has rarely worked out the way I intended, but my choice is not to engage in personal attacks, insulting behaviour, and mud-slinging. I fail to see why you wish to do that to me when I have not done that to you.

Considering that this post is not yours, that the patient (who has actually been under my care previously) has requested information and guidance, who are you to decide who he gets it from? Would you cut people off from anyone but Joe? Is that a sensible and rational thing to do? Is that fair or just? None of us have the right to force one opinion on another person. All we ever have the right to do is offer options, offer information, offer experience. I will continue to do that because I feel it is the right thing to do, that educating people on how HOMOEOPATHY works and how what Joe does is different, can hardly be called 'unprofessional'. What else would a professional do, but educate and if necessary defend, his profession.

So I am sorry that you feel the need to have a go at me. I have only ever striven to be a consistent, rational voice on this forum advising people of the way homoeopathy is practiced sucessfully by tens of thousands of practitioners around the world. You can choose to ignore that advice - this is your right - but to be trying to wall other people off from it is wrong.

I can only hope that your growing disdain for our profession, which seems to reflect Joe's hatred of homoeopathy, does not cut you off from the advice you may need one day. At the very least, I hope it does not turn into a fanatical need to keep other people away from our help.
[message edited by brisbanehomoeopath on Wed, 16 Nov 2011 00:07:24 GMT]

Hi Robert

Thank you for your response to my post which you may not have done if I had not moved it from the thread dealing with the 13 month old baby where David Kempson who entitled himself as the 'brisbane homeopath' had chosen to hide his feeble attempt to downgrade my Joepathy which CURED the aftermath of your stroke which had left you a paraplegic for about 6 years.

You have confirmed that in the past 2 years you have returned back to normal life without any impediment and that you are indulging in a 3 hours stint of an intense workout which I hope is not on a daily basis. You stated that you are also considering going a step further by running.

Your reports have given me the greatest satisfaction I have had in the 40+ years that I have been exposed to Homeopathy to know that you are back in harness and that I was in some way connected to your CURE which occurred after I read your post on this Forum and took your case. At that time, I had already helped 2 senior citizens who are now no more, to get back on their feet after some years of living as virtual vegetables as they had both lost movement in their extremities and were consigned to a living death by their children, for some time. I had used Arnica 1M to reawaken their brain and I was able to do so within a couple of weeks into my Joepathy. I mention this term deliberately as I want if known to you and David you will undoubtedly read this post that he would never have used Arnica 1M to treat patients with this condition simply because Hahnemann and his erstwhile followers did not record any CURES of this condition with Arnica 1M in their written texts which both David and I have studied. David refuses to come down to earth and insists that unless we follow the Diktat of the pioneers of Homeopathy to 'treat the totality of the symptoms presented by the patient with a single remedy' the poor patient is damned to an existence that is not a cure but is equivalent to a time bomb due to implode in a short time into a far worse state than what he suffered from originally. According to the classical sect the patient enjoyed his respite from his original state for only a temporary period of time as he would suffer a fate far worse than what you suffered from for 6 long years of Paraplegia. Be warned !

You are now 2 years into your new life and although I am indeed fearful of the possible results of the extreme stress that you are subjecting your body to, the fact that your mind impels you to do so is proof that 'All systems are GO' .

You are living proof of the efficacy of my Joepathy.

I am also delighted to learn from your postscript that you have been instrumental in saving the leg of a chronic Diabetic from amputation.

As you are aware, I am in my 83rd year and I am indeed gratified that I have been chosen by my Creator to continue the process of CURE that I have worked out in my own manner which differs from the tenets of classical Homeopathy which David practices which unfortunately do not seem to give the same positive evidence of CURE that my Joepathy does.



I have just noticed that David has posted his long awaited response to you a short while ago, where he states that he has used Arnica himself to help his 'clients' but in his own classical manner and not in the manner that Joepathy is used to directly treat the ailment presented by the patient in what has been termed the 'This for That' manner.

I have no qualms about the criticism I receive from David today and other classical homeopaths on the ABC and other forums who have criticized me in the past.

I do resent however the disparaging references that David makes to my Joepathy which I use today instead of the standard 'classical' homeopathy as I have found, as you too have found, that Joepathy CURES while classical homeopathy rarely if ever, does.

How are things going?

'where were you when I needed help?'... what a good one. Someone seems to think he got some special privileges. King Robert.

Edited because of bad spelling.
[message edited by starface on Sat, 26 Nov 2011 05:13:10 GMT]

'How are things going?'

To David,

If you have directed your question to me, I can assure you that 'things' are going nicely for me so far.

As you perhaps are aware, I am now 83 years of age and, as I have often recorded on this and other forums, I have proved conclusively that I owe my present state of wellness first to God and to Arnica 30c of which I sip a dose every night before bed, as I have done since 1996. I do not have any aches or pain in my body which are normally accepted as the price of the advancing years. My skin and general appearance belie my age and many who meet me cannot believe that I am all that old. I do wish that I can meet you to prove the point. I have not deviated in my daily routine which I have observed for the past 60 years and drive myself to office as I have done during this time.

Mentally I am as alert as I have always been but I do notice that I cannot sometimes remember the name of someone whom I may even have met the day before. This is somewhat strange for me as I can remember in vivid detail, incidents and persons whom I met say 50 years ago. They say that short term memory is sometimes affected with the passing years.

It seems a pity that we do not see eye to eye with each other because you have been ingrained into Classical Homeopathy which you once informed me that you used to teach but you will accept that my own 'Joepathy' seems to be equally effective in curing ailments that i advice and I consider Robert Ray's response to Arnica 30c in the Wet dose as the best tribute to my therapy. It is the deep satisfaction that I get from curing anyone that keeps me motivated to help anyone in distress with my Joepathy as I do not derive any financial compensation for helping anyone who consults me in Colombo, where I also include the remedy which I give the patient.

Robert has informed me that he cannot post on the ABC anymore as according to him, Simon has banned him from it at the request of some members as he was perhaps too enthusiastic in his comments of my part in helping him on his return to normal health.

If Simon reads this post I hope that he will look into this matter.

This seems a shame as he was only recording his cure in his own words which can help other patients to also use the same remedies and therapy to promote a cure.

I presume that you are aware that I am not the only Homeopath in the world to use the direct 'This for That' method of prescribing for an ailment as the Doctors Prasanta and Pratip Banerji who own the Prasanta Banerji Homeopathic Foundation in Kolkata have stated that they also use the same protocol in their website. They have also given lectures last month in both the US and in Canada where they have spelt out their concept of Homeopathy which seems to be parallel to my own Joepathy which I have refined throughout the past 40 years of my involvement in this Science.

Joe De Livera
Colombo
Sri Lanka

To Starface

''where were you when I needed help?'... what a good one. Someone seems to think he got some special privileges. King Robert.'

Can you please explain your statement if you addressed it to me?

What you have done with Nat-phos and Arnica here is not homoeopathy. You cannot judge homoeopathy by what happened through this treatment. This has no relationship to homoeopathy at all.

I am still willing to treat you, as I have stated in your original thread.

Joe de livera.

I believe the question 'How are things going?' from David was for 'badshah19'. And my statement was not to you either. I was just amused by the statement I read 'where were you when I needed help?' in one of Roberts posts.

To Dr. Joe,
Sir, last year i had consulted u for my problm of gynecomastia...nd had tried Nat phos 6x nd Arnica 30c but i didnt find any significant changes , so u had suggested me for chest exercises. I got involved in intense activity, though not too regularly due to my studies but d puffy nipples and d main part that i am able to figure out is the fat tissue below the arm pits are still there.
As i know that doctors used to test some medcins nd if they dont work they change it , in case of homeopathy,so i returned to u again.
Symptomps:- puffy nipples, tenderness, too sensitive, no pain,
CHRONIC STIFFNES IN NECK AND SHOUDER(sir this has really annoyed me)
Drowsy eyes, bulkness in eyelids, restlessness in heart, many times i find difficult to act n think simultaneously.
Sir, please help me nd i had gave the previous treatment only for reference, i hv full confidence in u.
[Edited by Zenn123 on 2017-06-02 17:37:31]

Joe is retired from this forum as he is 85 years old.
I think you can still talk to him on his own site joedelivera.com.